OMR calculation methods

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7. Jan. 2009, 18:39

I would like to share with you some details about OMR generation, the possibilities, and possible future enhancements.

For now, the algorithm uses combined: standard deviation of tags percentage, tags number and a few constants.

The script allows the use of: variance/standard deviation of top 1-x tags, variance/standard deviation of top 1-500 artists, we have a set of data for each artist like the number of tags, the percentage distribution of each tag, the number of plays...

Any suggestions on OMR improvements using the mentioned data are highly welcome :)
Akzeptierte Übermittlungen
OMR - Open Mind Ratio (improved OMI)

Kommentare

  • Nethiros

    i think "metal" "heavy metal" "brutal heavy metal" "nwobhm" "death metal" "blackened death metal" "black metal" "raw black metal" "dsbm" "nsbm" "power metal" "speed metal" "trve metal" "epic metal" "symphonic metal" "viking metal" and whatever were the ruin of OMI. when i listen to 10000 subgenres of metal i am more openminded than someone listening to classic, ambient, gabber and hardcore punk at once? seriously, what the fuck.

    10. Jan. 2009, 10:33
  • jester-race

    yeah, i can't see what i am on the scale for open mindedness because i'm off it :S u need to adjust it

    10. Jan. 2009, 19:33
  • jester-race

    well for last 6 months anyway, but i have that one on my profile

    10. Jan. 2009, 19:33
  • Jevofs

    I agree with InSolitaryRuin, OMR only shows a tag's summary. That doesn't mean a user with a higher OMR is a more open-minded person. Anyway, people who listen to heavy metal don't necessary listen to black metal, for instance; metal subgenres may differ a lot. Non-specialists in metal tend to think wrongly this way, but it's a world full of differences. Someone non expert could think the same about indie rock, pop rock, alternative rock, alternative pop, soft rock....

    2. Mär. 2009, 12:20
  • luzian

    InSolitaryRuin wrote: It is simply your assumption that the OMR signify a "more open-minded person" instead of just an indication at one's listening habits/eclecticity of musical taste. Jevofs wrote: "I agree with InSolitaryRuin, OMR only shows a tag's summary. That doesn't mean a user with a higher OMR is a more open-minded person." Why is it called "OMR - Open Mind Ratio" then? You're proving that the tool clearly fails at its intention to judge how open minded a user or his/her music taste is (the forum introduction reads "OMR (...) which determines how open minded you are."). So, Nethiros is completely right (even though he forgot "melodic death metal", "atmospheric black metal", "doom metal", "folk metal", "post-metal", "emo metal", "thrash metal", "progressive metal", "nu metal", "alternative metal", "metalcore", "math metal" and "extreme metal"....). The problem is that the tool can only compare the number of tags, how often they are used etc. but not how different they are. Of course there's a difference between all the metal subgenres, but the problem is that the tool has no way of knowing the difference between subgenre tags (like "doom metal", "atmospheric doom metal", "folk doom metal" and "experimental doom metal") and top level genre tags (such as "metal", "classic", "house", "hip hop", "punk" and "jazz"). Metal people are very good at inventing and using a different name for each sub-subgenre of metal, whereas for example a lot of completely unrelated music is just tagged "electronic" or "electronica", which are not even genres but genre families or umbrella terms. Electronic genres would be for example "house", "drum'n'bass", "techno", "ambient", "trance" etc. which each split into subgenres again, eg "acid house", "deep house", "tech house" etc. But the problem is that electronic music changes and evolves extremely fast, so there is no time to define all the subgenres created on the way. There is also no clear border between these different genres or subgenres, everything is constantly being changed and mixed, and many artists can't be placed into one or the other category. Hence they all get tagged "electronic", and even if they can be clearly placed into an electronic genre, many non-experts still tag them as "electronic", which is about as useful as tagging it "music". The other problem is that quite a lot of "popular" (to avoid saying mainstream) but completely unrelated artists get tagged "electronic". For example The Prodigy, Daft Punk, Björk and Aphex Twin get the same tag even though they have absolutely nothing in common. The only relation is that their music involves some electronic instruments or production methods. Saying they are the same genre is about the same as saying metal and flamenco are the same because they both use guitars. But while most people know the difference between metal and flamenco, a lot of "electronic" music can't be clearly defined. Try to define Björk, for example. She is somewhere between rock, dance, jazz, ambient, trip-hop and classical. But her main tag is "electronic". The tool than assumes that her music is similar to some drum'n'bass producer, or to other hard to define but electronic related artists, like The Prodigy (rave-hardcore-industrial[!]-breakbeat-alternative rock-big beat-punk vocals...). So finally, some suggestions: 1. Filter out the top-level genre families / umbrella terms which are not specific enough as genre, ie. "rock", "electronic"/"electronica". 2. Filter out "cross-genre" tags, which are used in different genres without defining to which genre they belong - eg. "alternative" can be alternative rock, alternative electronic, alternative metal... other examples are "experimental", "progressive" (progressive trance vs. progressive metal..duh), "hardcore" (hardcore techno vs hardcore rock), maybe "industrial" etc.. 3. Filter out "personal preference" tags which say nothing about the genre, eg. "favourites"/"favorites", "amazing", "awesome", "seen live", "welcome in poland", "best band ever", "overrated" etc. 4. Filter out country/language tags, they also say nothing about the genre - eg. "british", "german", "french" etc. 5. Try to detect subgenres by matching a tag which is reused within another tag. Eg. "progressive trance" is likely a subgenre of "trance", "death metal" is likely a subgenre of "metal", "melodic death metal" is likely a sub-subgenre of "death metal" etc. The importance of the subgenres could then be reduced with a factor in the "open-minded" calculation - a person listening to 10 subgenres of the same genre is certainly not much more open-minded than a person listening to 5 completely independent genres. Of course this last step is also difficult because not all subgenres have related names to their main genre, so it wouldn't catch everything. But at least it could catch a few things and is "genre neutral" (ie. would do the same to every genre, not as if genres and subgenres would be manually defined, which of course would be higly subjective). I guess the tool will never be perfect anyway, but this might improve it a bit... Anyway, back to work ;)

    10. Mär. 2009, 16:20
  • trailmixs

    hmm... is there no way to use the "Related tags" function of last.fm? [quote]Related tags * death metal * swedish metal * gothenburg metal * viking metal * finnish metal * metalcore * melodic metal * progressive death metal[/quote]

    18. Mär. 2009, 17:29
  • SaschaSIX

    it goes on tags? I don't tag anything! O.o

    28. Apr. 2009, 19:19
  • piparkook

    i'm literally clapping my hands here, luzian spot fucking on

    2. Jul. 2009, 19:49
  • Miklak

    luzian , you forgot one crucial thing: almost all metal music is tagged (apart from subgenre tags) simply "metal". Even non-metal bands are sometimes tagged metal. And also, as far as I'm concerned, most of electronic artists are tagged (in addition to "electronic") properly. At this point, your argument is slightly incorrect. Anyway, I agree with your suggestions. BTW, tagging system here on last.fm totally sucks. Rateyourmusic system is MUCH better.

    23. Jul. 2009, 22:36
  • Miklak

    One more thing: Some bands change genres, but artist tags are counted independently from albums/songs tags (aren't they?). For example, even if someone listens only to Agalloch's neofolk EPs, black metal tags are still counted (isn't it true?). (btw, black metal tags under Agalloch are stupid, since Agalloch is as black metal as Cynic is death metal). Well, people on last.fm are stupid and they can't classify music properly - this is why OMR isn't ideal.

    23. Jul. 2009, 22:49
  • Ozzloaf

    ^ This is true. And I wish it was by album because there are some bands like Ulver who release many different genre albums.

    20. Mai. 2010, 3:32
  • ViscidEntropy

    Last.FM is so cool. they wont let people talk about how completely flawed there new omr system is. because they know it doesnt work and that they screwed it up entirely. if you had a pie chart a year ago you dont get another, if you lost that info which is outdated because the site was changed then too bad. i guess no one gets a pie chart unless your new. thank you last.fm you are all facists.

    27. Aug. 2011, 16:24
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