Anton Bruckner

Conservationist schrieb:

Bruckner's attitude reminds me of Schopenhauer: seeking quietude through intense realization. Mahler is more neurotic, dramatic.

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Taxes schrieb:

Very interesting article indeed, and remarkably well balanced too, I would have thought that in the context when it was written, that he would have put more emphasis on the similarities between the two. 1940 is still a while before both Bruckner and Mahler reached the peak of popularity that we can see today (and this especially true in the latter case), seems to me that in such a case it would have been very tempting to exaggerate the points of agreement between those two then negliged composers.

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Taxes schrieb:

I agree with that, that's probably something that comes from the respective personalities of the two composers. Walter says something in the same vein when he mentions that "at bottom Bruckner's spirit was repose, Mahler's unrest." which he follows with the also very accurate: "Bruckner's musical message stems from the sphere of the saints; in Mahler speaks the impassioned prophet.". So I think that this "social" dimension to Mahler's music in contrast to Bruckner's more introspective character is something that he understood fully.

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zunari schrieb:

He died virgin

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CreamCat schrieb:

Interesting article, Taxes. Although Mahler and Bruckner have undeniable similarities, there is one fundemental difference, I think. Bruckner is a much more "existential" composer in the sense that his music deals with existence itself. At least in his symphonies, there's no room for other persons than the listener. It's you left alone with the mountains and the valleys - while you search for any proof that you actually exist in a psychological sense. Mahler was a much more "social" composer. His music could only exist in between human relations.

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Taxes schrieb:

Some interesting stuff here http://www.uv.es/~calaforr/walter.html, the famous Bruno Walter essay on the nature of Bruckner and Mahler. It's nice to see him note the parenting between Schubert and the two later composers, and unsurprisingly perhaps, his Bruckner Seventh is some of the most Schubertian non Schubert that I've heard. Holy fucking walls of text though, when will you silly German speaking people ever learn? :o

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CreamCat schrieb:

Vienna...it's all about cake and hatred.

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ArousedNinja schrieb:

Ok, good. Hug accepted. Also, most of my friends who like to irrationally hate on Bruckner, like me, admit that he was an excellent composer. I don't know, people from Vienna feel entitled to hate on him.

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CreamCat schrieb:

ArousedNinja: Believe it or not, I wasn't too serious myself with that comment. *hug*

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ArousedNinja schrieb:

People who are in serious need of a corkscrew.

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Taxes schrieb:

No but seriously, what kind of twisted person would someone have to be to dislike something like the Seventh?!

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ArousedNinja schrieb:

And CreamFreud, -10 points for those hasty assumptions. I am actually objective enough to appreciate Bruckner's music, and I have listened to his symphonies and 'understood' them. I don't like Bruckner for shallow reasons, and even if I didn't, I'd pretend I do anyway, just to get reactions like yours. But you can 'learn' me any time.

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ArousedNinja schrieb:

Ah my bad. Someone else told me about the three Bs thing and I didn't bother to check, in my pointless rage. Which means there is only one conclusion, fuck Bruckner AND Wagner. But yeah you got the Viennese sarcasm right, because that's where I'm from.

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kaisertallico schrieb:

Totally agree with CreamCat.

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CreamCat schrieb:

One day when I bother, if that day ever comes, I'll learn you f*cktards how to appreciate BOTH Brahms and Bruckner. But I ain't the Messiah or anything, so don't expect that to happen anytime soon...The point is if you can't concentrate long enough to listen through a Bruckner symphony, you're probably too dumb to understand it anyway.

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KraeheK schrieb:

Haha, thanks for the luls, ArousedNinja, I almost pissed myself.

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Seavas schrieb:

Oh yes it is. At least it used to be. It was Wagner who proposed the three Bs include Bruckner rather than Brahms, but those three Bs have included so many different composers over the years that no one combination may be considered canonical. Brahms was much more hostile towards Bruckner's compositions in his writings (in his echt-Viennese sarcastic manner), the only composer from the Wagnerian camp he respected was Wagner himself.

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ArousedNinja schrieb:

Since when is the humble Catholic a stereotype. You don't know many Catholics, do you. And just because others ridiculed him, doesn't mean he couldn't have done the same. What kind of argument is that. Yeah they may have grown to like each other, but that's just because they got old. Also, if Bruckner loved Brahms so much, then why did Anton want him removed from the three Bs. Yah, that's really respectful. So Brahms makes history, and Anton is all, "meh, Brahms ain't cool gimme some Wagner." No. Fuck Bruckner.

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