The most ridiculous argument you've ever heard

Albent said:
A) Cows give milk all the time, what are you saying? The problem, for business, is that the "normal" amount of milk that the cow gives by day is not enough, so they make the cow to have calfs one after other.

Cows do not give milk 'all the time', who told you this? It would not even make sense for a cow to produce milk all the time without a calf to look after (not to mention it would lead to serious injuries with her udder/mammary glands).
And you do know what happens to those calfs that are born at dairy farms right? Exactly, they are sold & killed for veal (just like their mothers once their bodies will not produce enough milk anymore after giving birth to yet another calf). So the milk you consume is directly responsible for more animal deaths.

Albent said:
B) Oh, you think that eating a chicken ovum it's not very appetizing? Because healthy vegetables are grown on manure, MANURE. That tasty, right?
What are you even trying to say here?! No, I don't think an egg is very appetizing. Apparently you do. Great. I don't see what that has to do with growing vegetables. Unless you don't eat vegetables (which I would not recommend, but hey, be my guest).

Albent sagte:
SGDminea escribió:
So, consuming dairy products and eggs includes killing. Also, the environment and circumstances these hens and cows spend their lives in are also highly unethical.
And I say it doesn't in which point?

Cows can give milk if you give them I-don't-know-which hormone and there's no need to give birth. And there's no pain for them, and I have milk, and also, a pet.
But no, no milk, because you read "milk" and you cry out loud.
I call them fascigans.
Enjoy.
None of the last posters is in any way fascistoid, none of us comes along with restrictions or orders.
We also do not 'cry out loud' when we hear 'MILK', we accept that others choose to consume it but you give the impression to think that milk and egg production doesn't include any pain ...... and that's a big load of nonsense.
All we do is trying to understand your fragments of an argumentation.

Like.... what is "And I say it doesn't in which point?" even supposed to express?

Again, cows DO NOT GIVE MILK out of the blue.
They need to give birth at least once to start lactating. Afterwards there are different methods in the industry to keep the milk 'production' up:
- impregnating a cow again and again
- impregnating a cow again and again including the method of increasing the number of embryos through artificial hormones to raise the produced milk amounts
- impregnating a cow once and keeping the milk production up through artificial hormones (like bovine somatotropin, prostaglandin, progesterone and other sick stuff)

The use of hormones isn't without pain. It leads to mastitis, lameness and more painful shit. Also, like mentioned x-times before, milk cows get killed when they become too old (which is after a fifth or less of their natural lifespan) which isn't without pain. They get separated from their calves for ever after giving birth which is emotional pain for both.

I can't decide wether you are just a web-troll or playing ignorant.

If you consume eggs and milk/dairy products 'cause you LIKE them and don't give a shit about the animals in the system.....
or if you LIKE eggs and dairy, do care about the animals a lot but don't have the willpower to cut them from your diet for several reasons....
FINE!
Just don't say that it's free from suffering or even a moral thing to do 'cause eggs and milk would be wasted if we/you wouldn't consume them - that's a big fat lie.

It's good that you care a little about the origin of your dairy and eggs, but I still feel (and I really feel this is the point of veganism) that keeping animals for producing stuff that benefits the owner financially is not the right thing to do.

I don't know which farms have you seen; in this one, calves are not separated, and bulls don't get killed. Why would them?

Also, if you believe that keeping chickens and cows is still a bad thing, what should they do? Release them into the wild, so they can get killed by people to be eated? Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

I think continuing this discussion with Albent is pointless. If one is not willing to understand what we are saying, we shouldn't waste time in to this.

oewrgioer

My mother told me, my delphos will vanish.

Any type of exploitation is abuse. Whether the animal feels pain or not, the fact that you are forcing them into a situation which is out of their control is wrong. Also, taking them out of their natural environment so they can make food for you, or be food for you is also (in my opinion) wrong.

I've heard all sorts of bullshit from idiots trying to get a rise from me for being a non meat eater. Vegans can also be shit though and take a holier than thou attitude to life which is why those who are chill about the whole thing have got a bad rep that gives fodder to trolls and pricks who like to take advantage of that and ask stupid questions to wind you up. Bleh.

Anyway, i just always turn round and say 'go read a fucking book' if they wanna know so much about it!

Don't feed the trolls :P

Normally, when I have conversations about the subject, people are quite understanding and bring up reasonable points about farming, consuming and their relation in general. So, so far no actual ridiculous arguments, but a couple of days ago I was at some party where I had the infamous, though probably inevitable discussion. At some point I brought up my veganism and although it was a nice girl to talk to and we both tried to understand eachother's points we were both rather drunk so the conversation just ended up nowhere. Anyway, it was mainly about 'plants are important too' (reasonable, but I eat almost 100% organic, as far as that was the direction that she meant. Not even to mention the massive amounts of plants that are grown just to feed animals in factory farming) and also that veganism was just not realistic because 'it's too extreme'. To the latter I really didn't know what to say apart from "works just fine for me". Besides, I think I made it abundantly clear that in no way I try to convince omnivores going vegan just like that. As a matter of fact I believe that even people doing as little as being a flexitarian or even just making the mental connection between the meat on their plate and the animal that it used to be, are quite admirable. They're already doing a lot more than most people. Not to say, ofcourse, that it's about the same as being vegan, but you get the drift - I think flexitarianism, vegetarianism and so forth are great, but that doesn't mean that I'm not a convinced vegan.
Anyway, so far not necessarily unreasonable points. But it got really silly when she tried to argue that it is in fact better for the environment to eat animals than vegetables and fruit. (I'm seeing you frowning already...). Yes that's right. The reasoning behind it was that, because meat is so much more nutricious than vegetables and fruit are, in order to replace meat by vegetables and fruit in a diet you need so many vegetables and fruit that in the end it takes in fact less farming land to feed a person with meat than it does to feed the same person with vegetables and fruit...

Edit - I edited this post like 87 times...

My favorite is "So, you only eat vegetables ?", or "We can't live without meat, there are some things who are only in meat"...

(Sorry for my bad english, I'm french.)

The worst 2 arguments I've heard against it are:

1. Vegetarian is pro-capitalism! As it supports organisations like quorn and vegetarian corporations.
2. "I couldn't be vegetarian for the same reason why I couldn't live off snacks. I'd never be full."

Harliquensfly said:
The worst 2 arguments I've heard against it are:

1. Vegetarian is pro-capitalism! As it supports organisations like quorn and vegetarian corporations.
2. "I couldn't be vegetarian for the same reason why I couldn't live off snacks. I'd never be full."

Oh, no, what? Pro-capitalism. I haven't heard that one yet, but I'd be absolutely floored.

But yeah yeah, I hear that. "Aren't you always hungry? What do you EAT? You can't eat FOOD." :|