Goth Culture vs. Metal Culture

The first ever use for the term Goth was 1000 CE, they were like Vikings who lived in Germany and were the opposite of modern day Goths as they had a reputation for violence and cruelty. Asides from literature, the date of gothic (adjective, not to be confused with the noun Goth) is around 1979 with Bauhaus and the song "Bela Lugosi's Dead."

I'm not sure when the term Metalhead came about, but probably not long after Black Sabbath, although the term "Heavy metal Thunder" was used in the lyrics to Steppenwolf's "Born to be Wild." Watching Sam Dunn's "Metal: A Headbanger's Journey" you are greeted to the typical 80s Metalhead (although no different from today), denim-vested, loud, full of themselves, drinking alcohol in parking lots. The 80s when these louts started making a name for themselves, with Paul Baloff leading his horde of "killing posers / anti-Glam metal" type elitists. Many fans say Metal is freedom, yet don't free themselves up from one style of music.

In comparison, Goths are mellow and not supportive of this type of violence. They are also against elitism, as many Goths support non-gothic music such as Classical and Industrial. You do not need to have an interest in vampires or a morbid fascination with death to be a Goth. " As the Shroudettes, we were too confined to the whole Vampire Lestat imagery and expanded our horizons to incorporparate some of our other influences, such as Gothic and Victorian literature, the symbolism of the alchemical arts, and mysticism of the medieval Christian heresies. As a whole, we wanted to have a more mystical and medieval outlook. This took us down a more serious path to our music and performing -- one that's more concerned with content than image. Furthermore, there are bands that do not call themselves gothic when the common conception is that they are - Sisters of Mercy and Dead Can Dance. There are standards aren't as strict for being a Goth, require are a Gothic personality - an interest in the finer and deeper aspects of life, and a little bit of a taste in gothic music - The Cure, Darkwave, Ethereal and so on.

Regarding The Shroud quote, image in appearance or lyrics, is very important aesthetic to being a Goth, and it's not a pose, a ploy or gimmick as some Metal bands are. Now, onto clothing Metalheads state "they want their music to be strong" (quote Global Metal) to differ themselves from the pop listening masses. However, their clothing totally contradicts this. In my opinion, casually dressing in band T-shirts and jeans / cameo trousers with the odd patch filled denim-vest is not strong or tasteful. Goth is a dark aesthetic based music subculture, and so more attention is put into the dark and beautiful appearance and lyrics.

I'm now going to quote from Burzum on Metal-culture. "I think the metal culture is an extremely primitive, unintelligent and pointless subculture, like all rock'n'roll subcultures are. I don't understand what the point with this metal subculture is. Smoking pot or getting drunk, sleeping around and giving each other venereal diseases, partying all the time, going to concerts to meet other vacuum-heads, and so forth. What's the point? Even bush-n___ can be more sensible and constructive, and deeper than that.The true attraction people have to this particular subculture is probably something else, like contempt for the modern world, fascination for death and the gothic, romanticism and even Pagan values, but it all becomes so very wrong when mixed with traditional rock'n'roll or heavy metal culture.

I agree with Varg, Gothic and romanticism (which is very close to gothic, in literature especially) subculture is what Metal subculture should about, an interest in the fine arts and not the type of temporary gratification that they engage in. There is nothing wrong with it, and I certainly don't condemn it but I do not go to Metal festivals to get drunk and party, I go for the music. Wacken is one of the biggest music festivals in Europe, around 100,000 attendees, and what attracts many of them is the party atmosphere.

I wanted to give a broad comparison of the two subcultures without going into much detail, I will give a general overview of Goth music later, as this much understood (not Marilyn Manson.) Goths are friendlier, less violent, more open and accepting to tastes and borrows the best parts of Metal culture (interest in the dark arts) and merges into a gathering of people. Metal subculture is full of outsiders, as Goth subculture is, but the brotherhood attitude does not just apply to Manowar lyrics, everyone is welcome as one big family, there is no split between the True and False.


[as usual, just a first draft, open for editing.]

I'm not sure, but did he jsut try to say that the visio-Goths and other ancient gothic cultures are at all similar to the modern day's goth sub-culture?

No, I'm pretty sure it's because trash is a pretentious faggot that's running low on ideas.

I use Wikipedia too.

OH NO! TRASH THINKS HE'S RIGHT! NOBODY ARGUE WITH HIM! HE THINKS HE'S RIGHT! THINKS

Wow, you sure do sounds like a woman Trash.

Kanye West is bro, bro.

this is a funny group; a bunch of prejudice. talking like all metalheads are the same. they are a sub-culture because they all love one thing - metal.

you also mentioned baloff and 'his horde of "killing posers / anti-Glam metal" type elitists.' just one little thing... thrashers wouldn't go underground if there wasn't for the glam scene, and most of the thrasher said that glam is okay.
posers are the ones that don't have any respect for the music. all they see are the(ir) looks. sell-outs are the biggest disgrace. music is art. if you don't have your attitude, of course you'll end up listening to talentless bands (cores for whiny kids who don't appreciate life but yet they think they're soo damn strong cause they're a metalhead. cores are not heavy metal and that's discussed the most). as Bello said, I'd rather have a good riff than my cock sucked. (actually referring to the glam scene)

we show our love towards GOOD music in many different ways. I don't know what you do for fun, I guess you dance like rihanna if you think that moshing is stupid? we are aware of other genres as well. personally, I like bach.

also in the description you mentioned morbid angel. I guess you don't know that everyone thinks that new album SUCKS. SEE!?

don't get me wrong, but with all this that you said, goth culture is nothing but a way to dress up. you also choose rather silly quotes (the ones from Dunn's films).. and also, burzum. I guess you forgot who varg is. a funny maniac. whole (sw) black metal scene is just a circus full of clowns.

Music > depressed fashion shows. [2]

Plus a lot of goth bands, clearly ripped off black metals vocals.

metalnut80s said:
Goth's try to be different they are patheic, Metalheads are different. Metalheads where casual clothes because they are comfortable, we wear band t-shirts because we love our bands, some of us have long hair because it looks cool to us, plus it is masculine as the vikings, native americans and a lot of ancient chinese men had long hair. Goth think they are really cool looking different yet at the end of the day they look like drag queens. and why should we care about music outside of metal?? we love metal, yes some of us love other genres as well, but most of us listen to metal as we prefer it to other genres which don't give the same feeling. The goth image is nothing of that of the old german tribes. and i can guarantee that more people listen to metal than goth, and that will always be the case so get over it. Goth will always be the genre everyone laughs at because it is a womens genre it always will be. Heavy metal shits on goth, Goths are depresses wankers who dress like girls and wonder why the world hates them!!

This post makes my brain hurt.

Plus a lot of goth bands, clearly ripped off black metals vocals.

Which ones? I'd be interested in hearing some actual goth rock bands that use black metal vocals, sounds like a pretty interesting combination.

hallowedscream said:
thrash wouldn't be what it is today. hate towards posers and glamers united them and fueled them up.
metal was never supposed to be pretty. but glamers do have talent. I guess you go by the dave mustaine's flow. if you do, grow up.

I see what you're saying, when I watched Get Thrashed a Violence member said "without Glam Metal, Thrash wouldn't have anything to attack."

hallowedscream said:
DEFINE A POSER.

There is no such term as a poser if you enjoy the music. There are some who think they enjoy Black Metal but really don't as it's a heavily acquired taste, it's like Opera you have to train your ears for it. Gothic Metal is an acquired taste, there are probably some posers who think they like that also.You'll know if you like all the other genres of Metal, because it's obvious and mostly enjoyable on first listen. The only other example I can give is claiming to be something / a genre that you are not.

hallowedscream said:
now I see why you don't get the metal scene. you don't share 'our' attitude towards having FUN.

This is from the genre that bought us depressive Black Metal and DeathGrind / Slam Death Metal.

There is quite a split in the Metal scene really, you have Drowning the Light who say Black Metal shouldn't be played for fun. Then you have alcoholic hippies such as Darkthrone who hail all school metal and have party anthems (e.g. Hanging Out In Haiger) on their latest releases.

As for DSBM and Slam DM, they are obviously not fun as they address the extremes of negativity and horror. Therefore, they shouldn't be listened to for fun as I think they're the most powerful genres in music (in terms of effect on the listener.) However, I would not say DSBM is emo (and we all know how emos are whiny and aren't a bundle of laughs.) The only band that comes even close is Happy Days, and I would say Metalcore bands such as Killswitch Engage are a lot more whiny than them. As for DeathGrind you have Impetigo, Mortician and Blood Freak who use old school Horror movie samples - Slam Death is also full of them - and are light-hearted reminder of the fact the music is fictional shock value. So neither genres promote fun at all, but doesn't strongly promote the opposite - suicide / mass murder or whiny teenagers / psychopaths - and can therefore be seen as art rather than fun.

I hope you're not implying Goths don't have fun, there are numerous clubs and festivals such as the Wave Gotik Treffen and Whitby Gothic Weekend, which is the equivalent of Wacken / Bloodstock for Goths.You have to go out to enjoy it more, it's more sociable than Metal (in my opinion.) The reason I don't think Metal is about fun is because it's unsociable, and a game of elitism and brutality. Not only that, but a lot of the elitism is just name-dropping, so it's hard to take an opinion seriously. All the Goths I've met don't care I'm not the biggest fan of Skinny Puppy or The Sisters of Mercy, but as long as I love some Goth music, such as Dark Electro, they won't make me conform to their standards.

hallowedscream said:
and I've already seen the comments by those silly bands who got well payed for the shit they've said.

This makes me laugh. I've always thought the fans are more elitist than those that play the music. I'm pretty sure a Manowar member listens to Disturbed for example.

hallowedscream said:
when looks take 50% of a 'sub-culture' everyone should ask themselves what the hell.

Just an opinion, I love dressing up, it's fun even if it requires a lot of maintenance. What is a Goth without looking like a Goth? A Metal fan can wear anything though, whilst I would say the bands are 50% image.

goths OWN metalheads. nuff said.