Kriegphilosophie » Diskussionen

The Natural

 
  • No, my point is not about poisonous plants and drugs; it's about morals. Can I not claim that some people become serial killers in order to maintain overpopulation?
    I can come up with an excuse for pretty much everything.

    The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
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    • Waldheri schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 11. Jun. 2009, 20:25
    I have absolutely no idea what you're getting at. Yes, you can give "reducing population" as a reason for killing. Killing is a rather effective method for that particular goal. Just where do you tie in the moral judgement of those actions?

    Meshuggah: "A combination of the powerful and the avant-garde, the band is as visceral and imposing an act as you’ll ever see and hear, guitarists Fredrik Thordendal, Mårten Hagström, and bassist Dick Lövgren hammering out lurching, monolithic riffs as they headbang in robotic unison, vocalist Jens Kidman barking out surreal verses like a twisted drill sergeant while gesticulating like a puppet on strings. - Adrien Begrand (PopMatters)
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  • the_gray_fox said:
    No, my point is not about poisonous plants and drugs; it's about morals. Can I not claim that some people become serial killers in order to maintain overpopulation?
    I can come up with an excuse for pretty much everything.

    It doesn't matter, you reasoning (natural = good) follows the format to the letter. The hemlock example was to show how the natural = good reasoning is fallacious.

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
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  • Maybe the moral judgement is a problem. It's close to karma; everything you do (be it a charity or a massacre) is meant to happen, because the universe tries to keep the balance.

    Hemlock is natural, yet reasoning is also natural. Therefore we acknowledge that hemlock consumption is lethal (?). So there's no problem here.

    The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
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  • .... you have no idea what I just told you, do you?

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
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  • Same stands for you... :-\
    We also had the chance to find out that hemlock if poisonous, so not consuming it is also natural (since reason is natural too).

    Besides, hemlock wasn't a good example. I'm talking about behaviour.

    The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
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  • No, you don't really understand what you are saying again...

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  • OK let's take this a few steps back.

    Do you understand how a logical fallacy works?

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
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  • Yes. But not appeal to nature exactly, since what I am doing is to support that appeal to nature is always right.

    The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
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  • If an appeal to nature is always right, then you should have agreed to have some hemlock with me since "it is natural and thus good".

    If you disagree that hemlock is good because it is natural than you are NOT supporting that appeal to nature is always right. It is a valid use of appeal to nature.

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
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  • Yes, but the fact that we do not consume hemlock is also part of our nature.

    The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
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  • That is irrelevant to the fallacy. You really don't get it.... Perhaps the cigarette one would be easier to understand?

    P: American Spirit cigarettes are 100%natural tobacco
    C: they are good (/better than other cigs) because they are natural.

    If you agree that the appeal to nature is always right, you would agree with C.

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
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  • Not all people smoke and this is natural. [determinism]Nature made some people so as to smoke, while others were not.[/determinism]

    I kinda get your point. Maybe reducing my thoughts to certain deeds wouldn't make them fall under that fallacy.

    The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
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  • If you justify them as 'natural=good' then YES they will always fall under that fallacy

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
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  • Dammit.
    Oh, well. At least now no one can tell me "HOW IS SEX NOT ALWAYS GUT? IT'S NATURAL, YOU XTIAN!".

    But I still am free to define whatever I want as natural. :D
    (Like there's any definition about anything that I'm obliged to follow, lol...)

    The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
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    • Waldheri schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 15. Jun. 2009, 6:01
    You can make up your own vocabulary all you want, but it doesn't help you communicating your ideas to others. If I told you "flip yar dum zoom bonk - and you can't argue with that!" that makes me look silly. Why do you think that is?

    Meshuggah: "A combination of the powerful and the avant-garde, the band is as visceral and imposing an act as you’ll ever see and hear, guitarists Fredrik Thordendal, Mårten Hagström, and bassist Dick Lövgren hammering out lurching, monolithic riffs as they headbang in robotic unison, vocalist Jens Kidman barking out surreal verses like a twisted drill sergeant while gesticulating like a puppet on strings. - Adrien Begrand (PopMatters)
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  • There's a reason the Dictionary was invented--so that people could agree on common definitions of words and communicate effectively. If your definition of a word doesn't agree with the dictionary definition of a word, look for another word which better matches your definition, or don't be surprised when everyone tells you either that you are flat-out wrong, defining the word incorrectly, or flat out doesn't understand you.

    Otherwise you will be continually in a definitional retreat.

    There's no problem a few frag grenades can't fix.

    Cookies for Godlessness
    My Twin in life, love, mind, and music: ISoS
    The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So do the spirits who are prevented from changing their opinions; they cease to be spirit. -Nietzsche
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  • Just when I thought that I had finished with language...

    The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.
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