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October 21st site update - forthcoming changes for subscribers

 
  • Re: Re:Re: Re: Re: Proper notice

    acreature disse:
    snyde1 said:
    I will go out on a limb and say that if you're not seeing the yellow banner, then you're not using the features being referred to in this thread.

    You're correct. If you use the Visual Radio you'll see a notice about these changes when you play one of the affected stations. We'll be rolling out a minor client update sometime this week that'll have similar messaging, and similar updates for the mobile clients are in the pipeline.

    What? I am "not using the features being referred to in this thread" in the Visual Radio if you may. I use the features mentioned here but someone forgot there was life after the Website applets, I guess someone is scribbling down this stuff in a paper towel as stuff happens and patching the "leaks" while water is already knee deep. With all due respect acreature, how about the questions i posted earlier? Any projection on when me and other interested users might get an official response?

    CBS means: Cut By Segments
    • acreature schrieb...
    • Alumni
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 17:20

    Re:This is the best i could do, any improvements are wellcome....

    AlphaDivxMovies said:
    how about the questions i posted earlier? Any projection on when me and other interested users might get an official response?
    I wouldn't necessarily call this "official" (remember, I'm a developer, not a spokesperson), but I'm happy to answer your questions:

    Are these decisions final and non negotiable? Can paying users willing to pay extra get their features back and then some more as a Premium service? If not why not?Yes, these decisions are final. No, paying users can't opt for a premium service instead. There's an explanation of some of the complexities of music licensing here.

    Who is ultimately responsible for this decision?A change like this doesn't come from one person; the company works as a team to make sure it's necessary and how it should be implemented.

    What is the big picture we are all missing? What are the "next big things coming"? What new features compensate us users for these cuts?I'm afraid I can't give specifics on what's coming up next (I've written about this before too). Fundamentally, though, people use Last.fm in different ways. If you don't feel that your subscription is value for money after these changes we'll give you a refund, and if you don't feel your account has value then we'll be sad to see you go.

    Can paying users be not only refunded but compensated for all the hours they spent “scrobbling” and Tagging tracks that they will not be able to listen any more although the statistical data is still there for use by the company?How about the equipment bought on the sole purpose of enjoying one`s play lists and loved tracks? And in what way can we be compensated?Scrobbling and tagging is still useful. It gives you personalised recommendations, gig notifications, charts, customised personal radio, lets you categorise your music as you like, browse your library, explore things on Playground, and so on. Radio stations like your library, recommendations, neighbours, and others will still be available on mobile and third-party players.

    I'm sorry these changes have upset you and you no longer find Last.fm useful. I think having a Last.fm profile has real benefits, including those listed above. I hope you'll keep using the site after the forthcoming changes, but I understand if you don't want to, and can only apologise again.

  • Re: Re:This is the best i could do, any improvements are wellcome....

    acreature disse:
    AlphaDivxMovies said:
    how about the questions i posted earlier? Any projection on when me and other interested users might get an official response?
    I wouldn't necessarily call this "official" (remember, I'm a developer, not a spokesperson), but I'm happy to answer your questions:

    Are these decisions final and non negotiable? Can paying users willing to pay extra get their features back and then some more as a Premium service? If not why not?Yes, these decisions are final. No, paying users can't opt for a premium service instead. There's an explanation of some of the complexities of music licensing here.

    Who is ultimately responsible for this decision?A change like this doesn't come from one person; the company works as a team to make sure it's necessary and how it should be implemented.

    What is the big picture we are all missing? What are the "next big things coming"? What new features compensate us users for these cuts?I'm afraid I can't give specifics on what's coming up next (I've written about this before too). Fundamentally, though, people use Last.fm in different ways. If you don't feel that your subscription is value for money after these changes we'll give you a refund, and if you don't feel your account has value then we'll be sad to see you go.

    Can paying users be not only refunded but compensated for all the hours they spent “scrobbling” and Tagging tracks that they will not be able to listen any more although the statistical data is still there for use by the company?How about the equipment bought on the sole purpose of enjoying one`s play lists and loved tracks? And in what way can we be compensated?Scrobbling and tagging is still useful. It gives you personalised recommendations, gig notifications, charts, customised personal radio, lets you categorise your music as you like, browse your library, explore things on Playground, and so on. Radio stations like your library, recommendations, neighbours, and others will still be available on mobile and third-party players.

    I'm sorry these changes have upset you and you no longer find Last.fm useful. I think having a Last.fm profile has real benefits, including those listed above. I hope you'll keep using the site after the forthcoming changes, but I understand if you don't want to, and can only apologise again.

    Thank you for the attention acreature and possible answers...i guess all i ( and other users) can do right now is try to salvage my Loved tracks in some way and find other alternatives. I love Last.Fm and am not ready to give up on it just yet i will stick around time enough to see what will happen after the 17th.

    Since i assume you and others at the Last.Fm staff know of the effort being made to salvage our Loved Tracks and Play-lists can i get your opinion / input into if this is a worthwhile effort or will Last.Fm / CBS cut our efforts short by changing the tags rules or the way global tagging works? I mean can we hope to circumvent this and be allowed to do it? A straight answer to this question is a proof of good faith and beneficial to other stoic users working hard on this. Once again thank you.

    CBS means: Cut By Segments
    • uldaman schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 17:41
    "Shock" is quite the understatement. The Loved Tracks and playlist features are the best features on last.fm by far. I assume this is done because of some kind of licensing issues and not simply an internal decision, because if it was, it's the single worst decision last.fm will have made.

    Listening to tag stations gives you hours of crap you can't believe is tagged this way, followed by a tolerable song, then repeat. You would have to listen to weeks of a tag station to find something you want to add to a play list or your Loved Tracks. That is why they are so valuable, they are your favorites.

    Listening to individual artist stations gives you fairly consistent tolerable results, and I usually only added Loved Tracks from listening to an artist station. It required me pre-choosing what artist and similar tags I wanted, but at least it worked unlike a tag station.

    Recommendations was never a useful tool for this because you can't throttle it by time periods (e.g. artists that haven't been scrobbled in 3 years still affect it) or any other parameters.

    The only possible way I could consider staying a subscriber would be if the station-builder became substantially more robust, and even then it's still a loss. We need logical operators in our station-building searches,
    e.g. "(speed metal OR symphonic metal OR power metal) AND NOT (death metal OR goth metal)".

    If we cant choose particular artists in the searches, let us prevent artists from the searches,
    e.g. "classic rock WITHOUT 'Billy Joel' " (Billy Joel sucks)

    I want to be able to build a complex query defining EXACTLY the type the tags the music my radio plays have, and the ability to prevent certain artists from playing. A weighting system would be a plus as well, where certain tags would be more prominent than others.

    There hasn't been a new feature that I've actually used and enjoyed and continued to use since they release the last.fm client application. I doubt seriously the new features are going to give the control I need to continue to subscribe.

    It's been fun.

    0_o
  • Exporting options.

    One of the features we've mentioned is the forthcoming ability to export your lists to other services. The best way to find out how best we can make this serve you is to ask.

    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?

    • juhanharm schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 17:59

    Re: Re:This is the best i could do, any improvements are wellcome....

    acreature said:
    I wouldn't necessarily call this "official" (remember, I'm a developer, not a spokesperson), but I'm happy to answer your questions:


    Thanks, acreature. Last.fm should give you a raise. Your explanations / clarifications have provided more then any of Last.fm official messages.


    Doesn't Last.fm have a spokesperson or some PR guy who could answer our questions? I think lot of complaining here is because of uncertainty / no official info. All we have from Last.fm is this initial message: http://www.last.fm/stationchanges2010. Doesn't say much.

  • Re: Exporting options.

    Knapster01 disse:
    One of the features we've mentioned is the forthcoming ability to export your lists to other services. The best way to find out how best we can make this serve you is to ask.

    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?

    So i assume present efforts will have no effect in Last.Fm? I mean, turning Personal Tags into Global Tags?
    As a Portuguese citizen i am limited and can only use Deezer and Grooveshark. I cannot use Spotify in a legal, transparent way. But i appreciate the efforts being made and for me the ideal solution would be Spotify and Last.Fm. But in my case Grooveshark and Deezer win by default i guess...i already have a Deezer account which i use in my android tablet from time to time. I eagerly await an answer.

    CBS means: Cut By Segments
  • Re: Exporting options.

    Knapster01 said:
    One of the features we've mentioned is the forthcoming ability to export your lists to other services. The best way to find out how best we can make this serve you is to ask.

    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?


    Please, take a hard look at Jamendo.com - they have nifty playlists already, that play in order of track appearance and see what their number of tracks per list limit is. It could be at 100 tracks per list, but if you bunch of staff, want to really work together, Jamendo is hard set on giving total access to the independent artists, with their own global rights.

    Jango.com - although the random shuffled radios are built by their listeners, not sure if we could import exact playlists. Not unless Jango could throw in some similar artists, spotted throughout the lists/radios.

  • Re: Exporting options.

    Knapster01 said:
    One of the features we've mentioned is the forthcoming ability to export your lists to other services. The best way to find out how best we can make this serve you is to ask.

    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?


    You must be joking.
    Ability to export? That is a service?
    I won't ask anything. LFM is doing a disservice to its customers.

    I say LFM is gonna shut the doors & you guys are just trying to placate us 'til 11/17. (Thinking about who to send my email address to...)

    • Ant718 schrieb...
    • Abonnent
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 18:54
    yannxou said:
    What will be the bennefits of being a subscriber after nov 17th? Oh yes! We'll keep a nice black-square in our avatar that will tell everybody how dumb we are!




    Hahaha!

  • Well, Goddamn!! It's the same old story..
    A bunch of people who love something sweat their nads off trying to bring that love to the wider world - they succeed and bask in the adoration of a grateful populace.. then the corporate vultures wheel in, scenting a profit to be made... they steal everything, paint it in their colours and sell it back to you.
    Can anyone tell me if there is a streaming site that is dedicated to music that screams against these poisonous creatures and, instead of nauseating adverts, is peppered with poetic vitriol cursing the corporate golems to eternal grief and constant bowel irritation.
    A plague on your house, vile wretches, I fell for it; I spent my time, in FAITH & sometimes joy, loving tracks, listening to them a couple of times and, if it was truly love and not infatuation, entering them into the pantheon of my playlists. I've got til Nov 17 to say goodbye to the results, have I?
    Well, Goddamn!!!

    Dissonance is the truth about harmony - Adorno
    THE LEAGUE OF EVIL TWINS
    • Ant718 schrieb...
    • Abonnent
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 19:00

    Re: Exporting options.

    Knapster01 said:
    One of the features we've mentioned is the forthcoming ability to export your lists to other services. The best way to find out how best we can make this serve you is to ask.

    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?


    This is one bit of positive news throughout this fiasco. I am hoping to be able to export to www.rdio.com & www.MOG.com in this regard. I have already started re-building my tag stations and playlists on these services. An export will be much easier, that's for sure.

    • Ant718 schrieb...
    • Abonnent
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 19:09
    Ant718 said:
    Some alternatives to last.fm after Nov 17th 2010. (some free, some not)

    www.rdio.com
    www.mog.com
    www.we7.com
    http://freemusicarchive.org/
    www.pandora.com
    www.Spotify.com
    http://listen.grooveshark.com/
    http://hypem.com/
    If anyone can add to this list please do so.


    Edit: added Hypemachine to list

    • holly75 schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 19:11
    Ant718 said:
    Ant718 said:
    Some alternatives to last.fm after Nov 17th 2010. (some free, some not)

    www.rdio.com
    www.mog.com
    www.we7.com
    http://freemusicarchive.org/
    www.pandora.com
    www.Spotify.com
    http://listen.grooveshark.com/
    http://hypem.com/
    If anyone can add to this list please do so.


    Edit: added Hypemachine to list


    See here: http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/653360/21#f13742504

    Nobody dies a virgin....life fucks us all. ~ Kurt Cobain
    • uldaman schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 19:16

    Re: Exporting options.

    Knapster01 said:
    One of the features we've mentioned is the forthcoming ability to export your lists to other services. The best way to find out how best we can make this serve you is to ask.

    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?


    Does this sound to anyone else like a service provided to conveniently facilitate all the subscribers' move to a last.fm competitor? I'm no marketing analyst, but that's got to rate somewhere near "wwwhhhhy?"

    0_o
    • rwitte schrieb...
    • Abonnent
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 19:16
    Last.fm as a music for hire retailer can make its own decisions (as, for example can music for buying retailers like itunes or amazon) about what to sell to consumers. The labels as music wholesalers can make their own decisions about what to sell to retailers. I won't be making any grand gestures, and will continue to subscribe long enough to see if I like the service, and then will stay or go accordingly. However what all the sellers need to understand is that they cannot dictate to me what to buy. If no services offer me a service I like, I am not forced to buy the closest approximation, I just stop buying altogether. I don't really want 'play on demand' or downloadable (as opposed to streamable) music. Nor do I want completely pre-programmed radio stations that I have no input to. At one time Yahoo Launchcast offered me what I wanted. Then it changed so I looked for an alternative. In the week that I found Pandora, it was discontinued in the UK. It was not until two years ago that I found Last.fm. In the intervening time I simply used no internet music services and the music industry got no money from me whatsoever. Neither directly, nor indirectly via advertising. So I am currently sad about the changes at last.fm and hope that it won't make the service unusable for me (after all I only use the features that are being withdrawn for about an hour a week as a means of 'fine tuning' my library, which is what I mostly listen to). If they do I will seek an alternative, but if I don't find one, I will just find some other way to spend my time.

    • jsklad schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 19:21
    Will most likely be dropping my subscription.

  • rwitte said:. So I am currently sad about the changes at last.fm and hope that it won't make the service unusable for me..... If they do I will seek an alternative, but if I don't find one, I will just find some other way to spend my time.
    +1 to that .... I've got a shed load of audio-interface work backing up - I was actually thinking of unsubscribing for a while to catch up... decisions been made for me!
    They'll not be getting any revenue from that, will they?

    Dissonance is the truth about harmony - Adorno
    THE LEAGUE OF EVIL TWINS
    • toc-rox schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 19:36

    Re: Exporting options.

    Knapster01 said:
    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?

    Format: XSPF (as open playlist format)
    Service: Spotify

  • I repeat, LastFM
    in FAITH...

    Dissonance is the truth about harmony - Adorno
    THE LEAGUE OF EVIL TWINS
  • Customer relations

    @acreature

    Hi, Alex Firstly well done mate, for having the guts to get up and answer all the questions on the station changes forum. There are a lot of upset subscribers there (I know, I'm one) and it can't have been easy to post up like you did.

    But that leads to me to a very obvious question. As you have said on the forum a number of times - you're a developer not a spokesman.

    OK - then where's the person who really ought to be fielding these questions - say the head of Customer Relations? Cos this is the time he should be earning his corn!

    I'm very disappointed by the changes. But not surprised. But what has astounded me is the cack-handed way last.fm has handled the customer communications surrounding them.


    And if that's not your job could you direct me to the persons whose job it is, so we can get some answers as to what has happened and what is planned to happen in the future?

    Thanks and regards
    Nick

  • Re: Exporting options.

    Knapster01 said:
    One of the features we've mentioned is the forthcoming ability to export your lists to other services. The best way to find out how best we can make this serve you is to ask.

    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?
    Export Formats
    DON'T waste too much time writing custom exports. Wrap the existing API and write XSPF. Point your user community to existing transform tools. Give a good write-up on "what" they can accomplish with such tools and a general "how-to" to get the job done.

    If you "must" write specific format exports, stick to XSPF, Delimited (tab, pipe, whatever), and iTunes. iTunes doesn't have to be full blown.

    Not fully up to date on the Apple PropertyList DTD, but a number of services offer import of simple, minimal track data formats (conforming or not). For instance, Grooveshark doesn't offer a pub API, but they've released access to "a few" developers to accomplish "a few" tasks. This iTunes Playlists Import tool for Grooveshark gets the job done with a simple dict that includes Name, Artist, Album Artist, and Album keys. Quick and dirty, and it works.

    Service -to- Service
    Please don't waste time writing/managing a service-to-service EDI codebase. Instead, convince, at minimum, your partners to write XSPF imports. Spotify already includes the ability to import from LFM. Makes no sense that MOG partners up yet doesn't provide the service (do they really want subscribers?).

    If you're going to dangle a carrot out there to convince others to do the same, focus in on those most likely to have the greatest catalog match, and convince 'em to include error reporting that allows writing out non-matched records to XSPF.

    This is something every on-demand service should support out'a the box.

    Better Yet
    Integrate your partners. Implement OAuth for authenticating across services, implement access to partner streams for subscribers in-line driven by LFM "lists", negotiate biz deals that makes sense for both parties to do so, and get it done.

    If LFM really believes in an online music ecosystem, then build a world class service that utilizes and proves it.

    Much rather see time spent building these types of solutions -- even if they take longer to build -- then focusing in on writing custom b2b data transfer processes.

    Partner up!

    Bearbeitet von JustSomeOldJoe am 25. Okt. 2010, 20:11
    • akrde schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 20:09

    Re: Re: Exporting options.

    toc-rox said:
    Knapster01 said:
    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?

    Format: XSPF (as open playlist format)
    Service: Spotify


    Format: XSPF (as open playlist format)
    Service: Playdar (as universal content resolver)

    ;)

    Bearbeitet von akrde am 25. Okt. 2010, 20:12
    • akrde schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 20:11

    Re: Re: Exporting options.

    JustSomeOldJoe said:
    Knapster01 said:
    One of the features we've mentioned is the forthcoming ability to export your lists to other services. The best way to find out how best we can make this serve you is to ask.

    What formats would be most helpful to you or what other services (deezer, grooveshark, spotify etc.) do you use which we could reach out to to allow imports from Last.fm?
    Export Formats
    DON'T waste too much time writing custom exports. Wrap the existing API and write XSPF. Point your user community to existing transform tools. Give a good write-up on "what" they can accomplish with such tools and a general "how-to" to get the job done.

    If you "must" write specific format exports, stick to XSPF, Delimited (tab, pipe, whatever), and iTunes. iTunes doesn't have to be full blown.

    Not fully up to date on the Apple PropertyList DTD, but a number of services offer import of simple, minimal track data formats (conforming or not). For instance, Grooveshark doesn't offer a pub API, but they've released access to "a few" developers to accomplish "a few" tasks. This iTunes Playlists Import tool for Grooveshark gets the job done with a simple dict that includes Name, Artist, Album Artist, and Album keys. Quick and dirty, and it works.

    Service -to- Service
    Please don't waste time writing/managing a service-to-service EDI codebase. Instead, convince, at minimum, your partners to write XSPF imports. Spotify already includes the ability to import from LFM. Makes no sense that MOG partners up yet doesn't provide the service (do they really want subscribers?).

    If you're going to dangle a carrot out there to convince others to do the same, focus in on those most likely to have the greatest catalog match, and convince 'em to include error reporting that allows writing out non-matched records to XSPF.

    This is something every on-demand service should support out'a the box.

    Better Yet
    Integrate your partners. Implement OAuth for authenticating across services, implement access to partner streams for subscribers in-line driven by LFM "lists" , negotiate biz deals that makes sense for both parties to do so, and get it done.

    If LFM really believes in an online music ecosystem, then build a world class service that utilizes and proves it.

    Much rather see time spent building these types of solutions -- even if they take longer to build -- then focusing in on writing custom b2b data transfer processes.

    Partner up!


    GREAT!!!

    • chiptotec schrieb...
    • Benutzer
    • 25. Okt. 2010, 20:51

    Re: Exporting options

    A guy enters a restaurant and, after seeing the menu, places his order. The maitre says he can only eat if he pays in advance. Intrigued by the menu, he agrees. While he's eating (it's a really nice food), the maitre comes and takes its dish away.

    "But I already paid for that" - he complains.

    "Sorry".

    "Why are you taking this away from me?"

    "Because".

    "Can't you do nothing about it?"

    "Yes. Have you already seen our beautiful door? We can help you export your sorry ass to the streets".

    -------
    Alex Mandarino
    -- These are the breaks
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