CBS handed over USER DATA (including IP addresses) to the RIAA

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- paulrichardcook schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 5:17
CBS handed over USER DATA (including IP addresses) to the RIAA

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/22/deny-this-lastfm/

This was a topic that got Last.fm riled up with denials a few months ago. Now it looks as though the truth is coming out.

CBS looks worse, but Last.fm doesn't exactly look good.

Here are some quotes from the article:

Here’s what we believe happened: CBS requested user data from Last.fm, including user name and IP address. CBS wanted the data to comply with a RIAA request but told Last.fm the data was going to be used for “internal use only.” It was only after the data was sent to CBS that Last.fm discovered the real reason for the request. Last.fm staffers were outraged, say our sources, but the data had already been sent to the RIAA.

[...] We believe Last.fm and CBS violated their own privacy policy in the transmission of this data. We also believe CBS and Last.fm may have violated EU privacy laws, including the Data Protection Directive, and should be investigated by the appropriate authorities.Not cool.

EDIT: Response from Last.fm:
Russ sa:
For the benefit of TechCrunch, because apparently I didn't make things clear enough the first time.

* Nobody at Last.fm had any knowledge of our user data being fed to the RIAA (or any labels directly), before or after the alleged incident, or at any other point in the history of the company.

* Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to any third party.

* Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to CBS (who, by the way, we don't consider a third party, but who do have to uphold our privacy policy).

* We've been in communication with CBS and they deny that they gave any third party any of our user data.

If TechCrunch have any evidence which contradicts any of the statements I've made here, I'd love to see it, but I think someone is taking them for a ride. I'm not sure why, though.
http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/8#f9525592

There's also: http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/6#f9522327 and http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/5#f9521312

[quote][b][user]paulrichardcook[/user][/b] sagte: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/22/deny-this-lastfm/ This was a topic that got Last.fm riled up with denials a few months ago. Now it looks as though the truth is coming out. CBS looks worse, but Last.fm doesn't exactly look good. Here are some quotes from the article: [quote]Here’s what we believe happened: CBS requested user data from Last.fm, including user name and IP address. CBS wanted the data to comply with a RIAA request but told Last.fm the data was going to be used for “internal use only.” It was only after the data was sent to CBS that Last.fm discovered the real reason for the request. Last.fm staffers were outraged, say our sources, but the data had already been sent to the RIAA. [...] We believe Last.fm and CBS violated their own privacy policy in the transmission of this data. We also believe CBS and Last.fm may have violated EU privacy laws, including the Data Protection Directive, and should be investigated by the appropriate authorities.[/quote]Not cool. [b]EDIT: Response from Last.fm:[/b] [quote][b][user]Russ[/user][/b] sa: For the benefit of TechCrunch, because apparently I didn't make things clear enough the first time. * Nobody at Last.fm had any knowledge of our user data being fed to the RIAA (or any labels directly), before or after the alleged incident, or at any other point in the history of the company. * Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to [b]any[/b] third party. * Last.fm has never given data linking IP addresses and scrobbles to CBS (who, by the way, we don't consider a third party, but who do have to uphold our privacy policy). * We've been in communication with CBS and they deny that they gave any third party any of our user data. If TechCrunch have any evidence which contradicts any of the statements I've made here, I'd love to see it, but I think someone is taking them for a ride. I'm not sure why, though.[/quote] http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/8#f9525592 There's also: http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/6#f9522327 and http://www.last.fm/forum/21717/_/535934/5#f9521312[/quote]
Bearbeitet von TheMannen am 25. Mai. 2009, 12:32

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- [Gelöschter Benutzer] schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 7:00
My god they treat us like idiots.

This is really insulting.

Although CBS don't disappoint me anymore because this is exactly the kind of shit we have come to expect.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] sagte: My god they treat us like idiots. This is really insulting. Although CBS don't disappoint me anymore because this is exactly the kind of shit we have come to expect.[/quote]

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- p0ppe schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 7:07
I'm appalled. Seriously appalled.

[quote][b][user]p0ppe[/user][/b] sagte: I'm appalled. Seriously appalled.[/quote]

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- [Gelöschter Benutzer] schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 8:56
If it's true it's really bad...for instance who's ip-adresses were send....

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] sagte: If it's true it's really bad...for instance who's ip-adresses were send....[/quote]

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- princexxx schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 9:08
bad news.

[quote][b][user]princexxx[/user][/b] sagte: bad news.[/quote]

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- akrde schrieb...
- Abonnent
- 23. Mai. 2009, 9:10
...tracked!

Tomahawk Music Player
Last.fm Free Music Player
Playdar Music Content Resolver

[quote][b][user]akrde[/user][/b] sagte: ...tracked![/quote]

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- magdalena_orion schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 9:14
(tracked)

Seeing as it's a long weekend we might not hear a response from Last until Tuesday.

The Silver Wizard Project can be found on:

Grooveshark
Reverbnation
Blip.fm
Myspace
Facebook

[quote][b][user]magdalena_orion[/user][/b] sagte: (tracked) Seeing as it's a long weekend we might not hear a response from Last until Tuesday.[/quote]

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- good_dancer schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 9:33
Here's hoping for a 'Techcrunch are full of shit' part II.

[quote][b][user]good_dancer[/user][/b] sagte: Here's hoping for a 'Techcrunch are full of shit' part II.[/quote]

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- _oao schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 9:35
more bad news...

*tracked*

[quote][b][user]_oao[/user][/b] sagte: more bad news... *tracked* [/quote]

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- Tecfan schrieb...
- Event Moderator
- 23. Mai. 2009, 9:39
I look forward to getting a reply from the admins. (will probably come on page 53)

(aka tracked)

If you're into experimental midicore/guitarprocore, you might enjoy my (free) tracks: Tecfan

[quote][b][user]Tecfan[/user][/b] sagte: I look forward to getting a reply from the admins. (will probably come on page 53) (aka tracked)[/quote]

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- FarCrysss schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 9:39
Should we be scared?

[quote][b][user]FarCrysss[/user][/b] sagte: Should we be scared?[/quote]

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- [Gelöschter Benutzer] schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 9:50
"last.fm are full of shit"

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] sagte: "last.fm are full of shit"[/quote]

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- [Gelöschter Benutzer] schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 9:55
Ok, I'm out of here

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] sagte: Ok, I'm out of here[/quote]

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- ChrisageUK schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 10:13
FarCrysss said:
Should we be scared?

I was unaware of all this until this morning - I read all the previous TechCrunch articles on the matter and the one published yesterday, and the last.fm/CBS responses etc...

I have been a member of this site for a number of years, and I always get the impression when reading communication from last.fm that they care very much about the website, the community and the level of trust the site has built up. This doesn't seem like something that they would knowingly do, as the recent TechCrunch article suggests. CBS however, well I'm not so sure.

I still wouldn't be too worried if true, I think there are so many factors going into this that it would be fairly difficult to bring the case to a court of law.

However, I don't think it's wise to download unreleased music illegally and then scrobble it on Last.fm - it's like robbing a bank, wearing a sign round your neck saying you did it and being surprised when someone catches you!

[quote][b][user]ChrisageUK[/user][/b] sagte: [quote][b][user]FarCrysss[/user][/b] said: Should we be scared?[/quote] I was unaware of all this until this morning - I read all the previous TechCrunch articles on the matter and the one published yesterday, and the last.fm/CBS responses etc... I have been a member of this site for a number of years, and I always get the impression when reading communication from last.fm that they care very much about the website, the community and the level of trust the site has built up. This doesn't seem like something that they would knowingly do, as the recent TechCrunch article suggests. CBS however, well I'm not so sure. I still wouldn't be too worried if true, I think there are so many factors going into this that it would be fairly difficult to bring the case to a court of law. However, I don't think it's wise to download unreleased music illegally and then scrobble it on Last.fm - it's like robbing a bank, wearing a sign round your neck saying you did it and being surprised when someone catches you![/quote]

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- c-reus schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 10:27
why on earth is Last.fm logging IP addresses in the first place?

Death to them all

[quote][b][user]c-reus[/user][/b] sagte: why on earth is Last.fm logging IP addresses in the first place?[/quote]

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- ChrisageUK schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 10:34
c-reus said:
why on earth is Last.fm logging IP addresses in the first place?

Every single web service/website you visit does. Literally.

Even the most basic web hosting packages usually have statistic modules that give you in depth drill downs of IP addresses/geo-location/operating system etc etc.

[quote][b][user]ChrisageUK[/user][/b] sagte: [quote][b][user]c-reus[/user][/b] said: why on earth is Last.fm logging IP addresses in the first place?[/quote] Every single web service/website you visit does. Literally. Even the most basic web hosting packages usually have statistic modules that give you in depth drill downs of IP addresses/geo-location/operating system etc etc.[/quote]

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- HodgeStar schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 10:34
c-reus said:
why on earth is Last.fm logging IP addresses in the first place?that's what i asked myself too.

[quote][b][user]HodgeStar[/user][/b] sagte: [quote][b][user]c-reus[/user][/b] said: why on earth is Last.fm logging IP addresses in the first place?[/quote]that's what i [url=http://www.last.fm/forum/21713/_/506518/_/8683853]asked myself[/url] too.[/quote]

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- TheBomfy schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 10:37
Please forgive my lack of expertness on this. I just want to see if I'm up to speed.

So CBS who owns Last.fm now told them to give them user data. CBS is not exactly forthcoming with the true intentions of that they are planning on using said data for. They are the boss they can do that. Since CBS is in charge they give the data to them.

Last.fm actually cares about the users and the community from what I have seen during my time here. Now, could they really have said no and not give the data if the true intentions had been made known?

Now is there something in the TOS (or whatever it's called) that says they will not share that type of information with the company that owns them?

Or is this an, oh shit, I did something I shouldn't have and may be caught situation?

Again my apologies if I look like a fool, I'm just not really up to speed on this whole thing.

321, are you ready to rock?

[quote][b][user]TheBomfy[/user][/b] sagte: Please forgive my lack of expertness on this. I just want to see if I'm up to speed. So CBS who owns Last.fm now told them to give them user data. CBS is not exactly forthcoming with the true intentions of that they are planning on using said data for. They are the boss they can do that. Since CBS is in charge they give the data to them. Last.fm actually cares about the users and the community from what I have seen during my time here. Now, could they really have said no and not give the data if the true intentions had been made known? Now is there something in the TOS (or whatever it's called) that says they will not share that type of information with the company that owns them? Or is this an, oh shit, I did something I shouldn't have and may be caught situation? Again my apologies if I look like a fool, I'm just not really up to speed on this whole thing.[/quote]

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- alexmuller schrieb...
- Abonnent
- 23. Mai. 2009, 10:45
Guys, you're jumping to conclusions. Wait for a response from the company. Innocent until proven guilty, no?

Alex

[quote][b][user]alexmuller[/user][/b] sagte: Guys, you're jumping to conclusions. Wait for a response from the company. Innocent until proven guilty, no? Alex[/quote]

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- [Gelöschter Benutzer] schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 10:56
jumping?

are you mad alex? they lied once whats stopping them from doing it again?
the next response we get will be well worded from CBS and use terms like "with you, the users, in mind".
I don't Download, Im more fucked off in the way data concerning me is being handed about.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] sagte: are you mad alex? they lied once whats stopping them from doing it again? the next response we get will be well worded from CBS and use terms like "with you, the users, in mind". I don't Download, Im more fucked off in the way data concerning me is being handed about.[/quote]

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- [Gelöschter Benutzer] schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 10:57
alexmuller said:
Guys, you're jumping to conclusions. Wait for a response from the company. Innocent until proven guilty, no?Agreed. It looks very bad for Last.fm/CBS right now, but I'm waiting for their response before making any judgements. For instance we know nothing about the credibility of the source(s) for this story expect what Techcrunch tells us. I'm sure that the truth will come out eventually, what ever it may be.

[quote][b][user][/user][/b] sagte: [quote][b][user]alexmuller[/user][/b] said: Guys, you're jumping to conclusions. Wait for a response from the company. Innocent until proven guilty, no?[/quote]Agreed. It looks very bad for Last.fm/CBS right now, but I'm waiting for their response before making any judgements. For instance we know nothing about the credibility of the source(s) for this story expect what Techcrunch tells us. I'm sure that the truth will come out eventually, what ever it may be. [/quote]

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- metawirt schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 11:04
alexmuller said:
Guys, you're jumping to conclusions. Wait for a response from the company. Innocent until proven guilty, no?
jotakoi said:
Agreed. It looks very bad for Last.fm/CBS right now, but I'm waiting for their responce before making any judgements. For instance we know nothing about the credibility of the source(s) for this story expect what Techcrunch tells us. I'm sure that the truth will come out eventually, what ever it may be.

ACK

"I'm the transmitter - I give information,
you're the antenna - catch the vibration."
(Kraftwerk)

[quote][b][user]metawirt[/user][/b] sagte: [quote][quote][user]alexmuller[/user] said: Guys, you're jumping to conclusions. Wait for a response from the company. Innocent until proven guilty, no?[/quote] [user]jotakoi[/user] said: Agreed. It looks very bad for Last.fm/CBS right now, but I'm waiting for their responce before making any judgements. For instance we know nothing about the credibility of the source(s) for this story expect what Techcrunch tells us. I'm sure that the truth will come out eventually, what ever it may be. [/quote] ACK[/quote]

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- rickmb schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 11:10
alexmuller said:
Guys, you're jumping to conclusions. Wait for a response from the company. Innocent until proven guilty, no?

That was before Last.fm decided to join the music industry in screwing people over based on geographical location, and with that broke the promise the entire service and it's success was build on.

Now that Last.fm has already turned to the dark side and proven to be untrustworthy there's no more "innocent", just a question of "how guilty".

When TC first made that accusation evidence was thin, even if it was true they should never have published it, which is why TC quite rightly got crucified for it. This time around, there's stronger evidence, and Last.fm/CBS has by now already proven to put profit over ethics, and the interests of the industry over the rights of the users.

Last.fm can go back to being innocent until proven guilty when they give the users who want to leave their data back. Now more than ever.

[quote][b][user]rickmb[/user][/b] sagte: [quote][b][user]alexmuller[/user][/b] said: Guys, you're jumping to conclusions. Wait for a response from the company. Innocent until proven guilty, no? [/quote] That was before Last.fm decided to join the music industry in screwing people over based on geographical location, and with that broke the promise the entire service and it's success was build on. Now that Last.fm has already turned to the dark side and proven to be untrustworthy there's no more "innocent", just a question of "how guilty". When TC first made that accusation evidence was thin, even if it was true they should never have published it, which is why TC quite rightly got crucified for it. This time around, there's stronger evidence, and Last.fm/CBS has by now already proven to put profit over ethics, and the interests of the industry over the rights of the users. Last.fm can go back to being innocent until proven guilty [i]when they give the users who want to leave their data back[/i]. Now more than ever.[/quote]
Bearbeitet von rickmb am 23. Mai. 2009, 11:12

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- sam_george schrieb...
- Abonnent
- 23. Mai. 2009, 11:20
i think CBS should give a full statement, they have mislead last.fm for handing over the information in the first place.

Reading the "tech crunch" article is very bias - so until i see a full statement, i will take this as a media hype .....

Last.fm’s denials were strictly speaking correct

Where you invest your love, you invest your life.

[quote][b][user]sam_george[/user][/b] sagte: i think CBS should give a full statement, they have mislead last.fm for handing over the information in the first place. Reading the "tech crunch" article is very bias - so until i see a full statement, i will take this as a media hype ..... [quote]Last.fm’s denials were strictly speaking correct[/quote][/quote]

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- LilTheater schrieb...
- Benutzer
- 23. Mai. 2009, 11:23
Oh shiiiiiiiii

[quote][b][user]LilTheater[/user][/b] sagte: Oh shiiiiiiiii[/quote]

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